By rvy Go To PostBut is sliding these snippets to the media the way to go about it?Melo has a no trade clause.
The only way they can get rid of him is to partake in this stupid shit.
It's not a good look for either... and is probably a part of the KP issues.
By DY_nasty Go To Postball is gonna fall harder than noel at this rateWot happon
By IWMTB19 Go To PostAlright Phil has to go immediately. (Trade Melo first please)
Great environment.
By reilo Go To PostBet you KP likes Melo more than Phil
Phil is forcing his childhood hero out of town to bottom out..... Is he going to struggle being the offense next year. Hell yeah, but it's time he starts trying to carry that weight, and I want them to tank. Luka "Brazi" Doncic looks like prime Turkgulu or Manu as a SF and he's 17. That's exactly what I would want between KP and Willy for the Knicks.
By IWMTB19 Go To Post
Great environment.
It's not which might partly be on Melo as much as Phil (mostly Phil) The team looks up to him, he's a great guy, HOF player, nobody is denying that. The organization is going another way. Phil wants to run the shitty Tryangle .... fuck it. Just get young talent and put it around KP and in about 5 seasons people will talk about him like Hinkie and say "you know what he did the hard work that got us here"
By giririsss Go To PostMelo has a no trade clause.
The only way they can get rid of him is to partake in this stupid shit.
It's not a good look for either… and is probably a part of the KP issues.
Exactly this is getting ugly to try and force Melo to agree to more locations. Also it lets Melo leave and his brand isn't harmed at all. All the casual fans are pissed at Phil not seeing this build up for a while now. We need to rebuild around KP and Melo doesn't help that.
By DY_nasty Go To Postwhat is melo's brand?
salty peanut butter
It's whatever they pay him to be that cool guy that everyone but Phil likes as a person.
By DY_nasty Go To Postwhat is melo's brand?
salty peanut butter
Yes, but the natural kind and his jar has sat too long and all the oil has separated
I finally got to see the whole press conference. Phil Jackson is a crazy person. This is Knicks era Larry Brown level shit. Sadly after watching this and seeing Melo's response I'm pretty sure he's staying to spite Phil.
Jackson looks awful...
fake edit: how in the hell did he get hired? he's 71 years old, jesus! Pat is older but he's been with us for forever. I guess winning, not-new york media and the weather helped too.
fake edit: how in the hell did he get hired? he's 71 years old, jesus! Pat is older but he's been with us for forever. I guess winning, not-new york media and the weather helped too.
By s y Go To PostJackson looks awful…
fake edit: how in the hell did he get hired? he's 71 years old, jesus! Pat is older but he's been with us for forever. I guess winning, not-new york media and the weather helped too.
Yeah but I don't know how I feel about a heat fan right now critiquing the Knicks. Is being a treadmill team about to pay Dion Waiters not as bad as the Knicks moves? Plus those two draft picks going to the Suns and how Wade and Lebron left and ya'll didn't get anything back for them. Can you really say Riley has done a better job in the same time period as Phil?
By Zeus Ex Machina Go To PostYeah but I don't know how I feel about a heat fan right now critiquing the Knicks. Is being a treadmill team about to pay Dion Waiters not as bad as the Knicks moves? Plus those two draft picks going to the Suns and how Wade and Lebron left and ya'll didn't get anything back for them. Can you really say Riley has done a better job in the same time period as Phil?
Holy shit yes. The Heat are a capable organization with a great coach, an entrenched defensive identity and routinely turn scrap-heap guys like Waiters, Whiteside and James Johnson into capable players. The Knicks are the biggest tire fire in a league that has the Vivek/Vlade Kings.
Every Phil Jackson has season has resulted in 50 losses, despite multiple playoff predictions. He tried to build a super team around two dudes who can't physically play. The guy really has no clue what's going on or how to fix it.
By Kibner Go To Post
No. Clue.
The Phil Jackson experience reminds me from afar what I felt living through the David Kahn twilight zone. Totally not qualified for the position, combative with players, constantly running his mouth off to the media, refusing to get behind his best guy.
By Kibner Go To PostHe's a fucking crazy person.
If Melo was on another team looking to get out, I have no doubt in my mind that Phil would trade KP for him.
By livefromkyoto Go To PostHoly shit yes. The Heat are a capable organization with a great coach, an entrenched defensive identity and routinely turn scrap-heap guys like Waiters, Whiteside and James Johnson into capable players. The Knicks are the biggest tire fire in a league that has the Vivek/Vlade Kings.
Every Phil Jackson has season has resulted in 50 losses, despite multiple playoff predictions. He tried to build a super team around two dudes who can't physically play. The guy really has no clue what's going on or how to fix it.
No. Clue.
Funny how you cape for a treadmill team. I didn't go at the Heat organization, I didn't go at Riley in general, but you came in caping his recent moves though they have been worse than Phil's. Pick 14 in the draft is literally the worse place to be in the league fuck the win/loss record. The scrappy player thing is whatever all teams do that. My issue is they are about to pay those garbage heap players but let me go in.....
1) The first major L was the Heat gave up 2 first rounders to the suns for Dragic and they have already began missing the playoffs.
2) If the intention was to let Wade walk (or not to give him the max he deserved) they should of tried to trade him the season before similar to what Phil is doing now. Instead they lowballed him and got nothing for it.
3) Bosh's bloodclots was obviously something they couldn't call but all indications are they are taking that Bosh money and are about to split it between two roleplayers (one of who is Dion waiters in a contract Year) to continue to be a treadmill team with the picks they do have.
4) What. Riley did to Wade last year was worse than what Phil is doing to Melo. Wade brought them chips and took pay cuts under Riley for them to get more chips. He was owed more loyalty from the Heat organization than Melo is owed by Phil as the GM of the Knicks. He was on a team that went to the ECF before he left too.
Anyhow once again so we're clear noone is going at Riley's legacy or Heat organization stability, remember my argument was that since Phil has been there (same time Lebron left) Riley has not been a better GM. Not saying Riley isn't a better GM in total just that his moves for the Heat the last few season have been legit bad. Pick 14 is the worse place to be in the league going into the offseason because it's literally prime treadmill team status. That's what the Heat is built for because Riley doesn't want to rebuild at the end of his career.
What. Riley did to Wade last year was worse than what Phil is doing to Melo. Wade brought them chips and took pay cuts under Riley for them to get more chips. He was owed more loyalty from the Heat organization than Melo is owed by Phil as the GM of the Knicks. He was on a team that went to the ECF before he left too.Why are you under the impression that Wade took those paycuts FOR Riley? He wanted to win and that was the price. LBJ opting out in 2014 took more money away from him than any of those pay cuts. After taxes, he took the same offer from Chicago that we offered him. The Wade situation could have been avoided but we're better off for it. There were issues with both sides.Also, We didn't make the ECF, we got to the second round.
2) If the intention was to let Wade walk (or not to give him the max he deserved) they should of tried to trade him the season before similar to what Phil is doing now.Wade was never ever going to be traded. All this public shit talk Phil is doing is going to backfire in his face when Melo stays put instea dof letting PJ force him out. Doesn't Phil also give him a trade kicker?
3) Bosh's bloodclots was obviously something they couldn't call but all indications are they are taking that Bosh money and are about to split it between two roleplayers (one of who is Dion waiters in a contract Year) to continue to be a treadmill team with the picks they do have.We probably won't have the money to pay Dion because he'll be getting max offers elsewhere but we'll probably keep James Johnson. Since the start of the new year we've had one of the best records in the entire league, if we can continue, that isn't treadmill status. We also have very young players still developing and if recent years are any indications, there's a good chance that we can turn that player we pick into a rotation player.
This year's situation sucks but Riley has managed to mold one of the best coaches in the league and find good players out of nowhere in Tyler Johnson, Hassan Whiteside, James Johnson, etc. There's a core that can be built around. Knicks have nothing outside of KP
Phil Jackson is publicly shitting on the player that he decided to give a max contract and the Knicks have lost 50+ games in each of the last 3 seasons and nothing to show for it but a disgruntled young player, who has no hope in his organization building a winning team or a winning culture.
By s y Go To PostWhy are you under the impression that Wade took those paycuts FOR Riley? He wanted to win and that was the price. LBJ opting out in 2014 took more money away from him than any of those pay cuts. After taxes, he took the same offer from Chicago that we offered him. The Wade situation could have been avoided but we're better off for it. There were issues with both sides.Also, We didn't make the ECF, we got to the second round.
Wade was never ever going to be traded. All this public shit talk Phil is doing is going to backfire in his face when Melo stays put instea dof letting PJ force him out. Doesn't Phil also give him a trade kicker?
We probably won't have the money to pay Dion because he'll eb getting max offers elsewhere but we'll rpoabably keep Johnson. Since the start of the new year we've had one of the best records in the entire league, that isn't treadmill status. We also have very young players still developing and if recent years are any idications, it's likely we can turn whover we pick into a rotation player.
This year's situation sucks but Riley has managed to mold one of the best coaches in the league and find good players out of nowhere in Tyler Johnson, Hassan Whiteside, James Johnson, etc. There's a core that can be built around. Knicks have nothing outside of KP
Phil Jackson is publicly shitting on the player that he decided to give a max contract and the Knicks have lost 50+ games in each of the last 3 seasons and nothing to show for it but a disgruntled young player, who has no hope in his organization building a winning team or a winning culture.
The Heat are currently a treadmill team relying on Dragic being good until he is 33 years old to maintain that status. Their core you mention is mostly Roleplayers, the team's draft strategy is to be range to get roleplayers in the draft (when they have picks). Wade deserved better from Riley, he won under Riley. Melo is a HOF player but he hasn't won nearly enough for me to cape for him.
If Melo stays he won't be catered to. Phil's been here two years and got two ROY candidates. We suck but we're getting a good draft compensation for it. The Heat aren't in the playoffs and will get pick #14 and then no pick next year. Dion waiters is not getting the max the era of roleplayers getting paid is over the cap bounces have stopped. Unless the Heat give him a Max.......
By s y Go To Post
Lmao and the Heat got to pay Tyler Johnson 18 mil the year after next for his 13 pt a season avg so your even more locked into treadmill status
By s y Go To PostHey Hernangomez was rookie of the month in April. Brogdon, Saric and maybe Embiid are the only ones I'd put ahead of him and the first two had the benefit of consistent playing time throughout the season. Hernangomez is definitely in the ROTY discussion. Not that that's saying much, this class has been terrible.
By reilo Go To PostHow are the Heat "treadmill" considering they're only two years removed from starting a rebuild?
They never rebuilt, the plan based on what was said here when I called it a bad move years ago was "Riley doesn't use the draft he's going to retool around Bosh and Wade".
They then traded two future 1st rounders for Dragic (bad move), kept whiteside (good move), Let Wade walk (Good Move except if the plan is to retool around him), matched the poison pill Tyler Johnson deal (very bad move) and are now relying on "hidden gems in contract years" and potentially Winslow (who I like but is flawed offensively) to be good enough to be a treadmill team. Now I believe they got Bosh's contract's cap space and pick #14 to retool around Whiteside and Dragic who were originally brought in and kept to retool around Bosh and Wade...... all that to me equals treadmill team.
I think Bosh getting blood clots isn't something you plan for, but ok.
Also, let's be real: you'd rather have Riley run the Knicks so don't pretend otherwise.
Also, let's be real: you'd rather have Riley run the Knicks so don't pretend otherwise.
By reilo Go To PostI think Bosh getting blood clots isn't something you plan for, but ok.
Also, let's be real: you'd rather have Riley run the Knicks so don't pretend otherwise.
Injuries happen all the time, that's not an excuse for other GM's. It's hard to go back on this site but I called the retool around Bosh and Wade bad when it happened because they traded for Dragic after they knew he had bloodclots. Arguably retooling around Bosh and Wade was a iffy proposition then cause Bosh likely wouldn't and he still traded those picks.
Also No one is saying Riley is a bad GM, but he's been making bad GM moves post Lebron. Right now the Knicks need to rebuild not retool, Riley isn't about that life so no he can stay in Miami.
Zeus stop. Your stockholm syndrome is bumming me out. I really believe you know enough about basketball that you could have done a better job than Phil yourself.
1. You have the Knicks' unlimited money. Hire an experienced coach who doesn't suck. Let him run his own system.
2. Don't make trades for dumb, busted players. Tell me you would have looked at the whole league and said "wow, I gotta get in on Derrick Rose right now."
3. Don't sign dumb, busted free agents. Tell me you would have looked at everybody available and said "Joakim Noah. Now there's a man who's going to be productive for 4 years."
4. Don't start twitter beef with your own players. Who else even does this?
5. If you luck into a good young player, don't trash him in press conferences. Maybe even try something crazy like building around him.
Think about this. The only teams that finished worse than NY this year were the ones who were actively throwing games. Your guy thought he had a tough veteran playoff team.
The bar is so low here. You could do it. I could do it. Just stay out of the way and do the normal, expected thing at any given juncture.
1. You have the Knicks' unlimited money. Hire an experienced coach who doesn't suck. Let him run his own system.
2. Don't make trades for dumb, busted players. Tell me you would have looked at the whole league and said "wow, I gotta get in on Derrick Rose right now."
3. Don't sign dumb, busted free agents. Tell me you would have looked at everybody available and said "Joakim Noah. Now there's a man who's going to be productive for 4 years."
4. Don't start twitter beef with your own players. Who else even does this?
5. If you luck into a good young player, don't trash him in press conferences. Maybe even try something crazy like building around him.
Think about this. The only teams that finished worse than NY this year were the ones who were actively throwing games. Your guy thought he had a tough veteran playoff team.
The bar is so low here. You could do it. I could do it. Just stay out of the way and do the normal, expected thing at any given juncture.
By Kibner Go To PostPhil hates NY
Knicks would've been better off keeping their roster from the year prior and winning just as many games. Think about that.
By reilo Go To PostKnicks would've been better off keeping their roster from the year prior and winning just as many games. Think about that.The Seattle Sonics have more playoff wins since 2002
And it's fucking hilarious to throw shots at a GM/Pres that has built a team that won three rings with five Finals appearances since 2002.
Who's Phil Jackson without Jerry Krause/Jerry West/Mitch Kupchak?
Who's Phil Jackson without Jerry Krause/Jerry West/Mitch Kupchak?
By blackace Go To PostThe Seattle Sonics have more playoff wins since 2002Well the Knicks have existed more since 2008.
By masud Go To PostWell the Knicks have existed more since 2008.Have they though?
By reilo Go To PostHave they though?If the Knicks don't exist then why does it hurt so bad?
By masud Go To PostIf the Knicks don't exist then why does it hurt so bad?People hurt all the time over long lost loved ones.
By Kibner Go To Post
Please be true, please free Porzingis Phil.
Spurs should go offer LMA for Porzingis, they could probably get away with it.
Real talk, I hope KP leaves if they trade Carmelo. If Phil is going to shit on a guy he gave a NTC, what do you think he'll do to Porzingis? KP has said repeatedly he likes Carmelo and wants him around. Again, offseason of last year the Knicks were still in a ok position on the rebuild... what happens? He signs Rose/Jennings/Noah, and doesn't pull the trigger on Rose or Jennings on trades. The point guards don't fit the Triangle, and Rose/Jennigns on Hornacek's 2 PG system was concentrated shit on Defense which negated any worth they had on O. Noah ... was overpaid, used PEDs, and got hurt. Never mind they couldn't agree on a single O and junked the plays that ran well with Carmelo and KP (high post Triangle)... For all the shit Phil is putting on Carmelo, he's destroyed the team so much and now alienated the top 2 players. Hopefully KP walking opens up the eyes of Knick fans that Phil needs to leave before Carmelo does.
Phil has talked more shit about Melo and KP than he did about Noah and Rose.
Rose, who, was on rape trial when the season started, hurt his knee AGAIN, disappeared before a game because he got into his feels, was completely terrible for them on the floor and committed a cardinal sin by saying he didn't like the triangle offense. Phil Jackson literally had no comment to any of that Rose drama. "I think we might bring him back", Phil Jackson says now.
And then, of course, everything that Frankman outlined above about Noah.
Meanwhile, Carmelo is the bad guy? Come on. I don't like the dude and I don't think he's an elite player anymore you build an offense around, but he could contribute to a winner in the right situation.
Rose, who, was on rape trial when the season started, hurt his knee AGAIN, disappeared before a game because he got into his feels, was completely terrible for them on the floor and committed a cardinal sin by saying he didn't like the triangle offense. Phil Jackson literally had no comment to any of that Rose drama. "I think we might bring him back", Phil Jackson says now.
And then, of course, everything that Frankman outlined above about Noah.
Meanwhile, Carmelo is the bad guy? Come on. I don't like the dude and I don't think he's an elite player anymore you build an offense around, but he could contribute to a winner in the right situation.
By masud Go To PostWell the Knicks have existed more since 2008.That's kinda the point of why they are so pathetic
The real bizarro thing the kill s me is Phil calling Carmelo too much of a ballstopper... YOU SIGNED FUCKING DERRICK ROSE. At least Carmelo passes to guys he trusts and circa last year, if double-teamed in the post. Rose played with the court vision of a gnat.
The offense could still flow in '15-16 because Langston Galloway/Jerian Grant were going to move the ball most of the time and still be a threat to score off-ball. In essence, they could handle Carmelo going 1-on-1. With Rose missing people, Noah's presence shrinking the court, and not really picking a set offense we saw a regression in KP as he started to go "fuck it 17 seconds on the clock I'm pulling up". Everything was so disjointed and mostly because Hornacek's initial offensive system was a) basura or (more likely) b) didn't have the right PG personnel to run it.
The amazingly funny thing is this: Let's say you don't trade for Rose or Noah but add Lee and maybe some bench scoring and your roster to start 2016 is this:
Robin Lopez
KP
Carmelo
Courtney Lee
Jerian Grant/Some other PG
Ron Baker PG/SG
Willy Hernangomez C 22 6-11
Mindaugas Kuzminskas SF 27 6-9
Maurice Ndour SF 24 6-9
Kyle O'Quinn C 27 6-10
Sasha Vujacic SG 33 6-7
Lance Thomas SF 28 6-8
Westchester
-----------------------
Marshall Plumlee C
Chasson Randle PG
like... that's not terrible for a rebuild/team fighting for the #8 seed. You've got young players, and defenders/vet guys who know their role (Lee/Thomas). The key also is they're still very cap flexible with over $15 million in room. They could've (as reilo said) had the same year, but more positivity and growth and less confusion between everyone. Phil completely fucked that up to the point even Spike wants his bum ass gone.
The offense could still flow in '15-16 because Langston Galloway/Jerian Grant were going to move the ball most of the time and still be a threat to score off-ball. In essence, they could handle Carmelo going 1-on-1. With Rose missing people, Noah's presence shrinking the court, and not really picking a set offense we saw a regression in KP as he started to go "fuck it 17 seconds on the clock I'm pulling up". Everything was so disjointed and mostly because Hornacek's initial offensive system was a) basura or (more likely) b) didn't have the right PG personnel to run it.
The amazingly funny thing is this: Let's say you don't trade for Rose or Noah but add Lee and maybe some bench scoring and your roster to start 2016 is this:
Robin Lopez
KP
Carmelo
Courtney Lee
Jerian Grant/Some other PG
Ron Baker PG/SG
Willy Hernangomez C 22 6-11
Mindaugas Kuzminskas SF 27 6-9
Maurice Ndour SF 24 6-9
Kyle O'Quinn C 27 6-10
Sasha Vujacic SG 33 6-7
Lance Thomas SF 28 6-8
Westchester
-----------------------
Marshall Plumlee C
Chasson Randle PG
like... that's not terrible for a rebuild/team fighting for the #8 seed. You've got young players, and defenders/vet guys who know their role (Lee/Thomas). The key also is they're still very cap flexible with over $15 million in room. They could've (as reilo said) had the same year, but more positivity and growth and less confusion between everyone. Phil completely fucked that up to the point even Spike wants his bum ass gone.