NBA Offseason |2017| Westeros Conference

By livefromkyoto Go To PostHe's from Philly, that rumour is always out there too.

Wouldn't be a bad pickup for Philly and he fits well next to Simmons. Only reason I didn't list them was because I assumed they'd come out of this draft with a PG to develop. Smith or Fox coming off the bench or Lowry playing next to Fultz would be fine though.

By KingGondo Go To PostOnly way Lowry is getting a ring in the next few years is to sign for a huge discount in GS or CLE.

If he thinks the East is tough because of Bron, he's gonna go cry in the car after a series against the Warriors.

now i hope he signs in the west just to see him go up vs that buzzsaw.

the mike scott story is really bizarre

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/arresting-deputy-fired-following-former-hawks-forward-mike-scotts-concerning-drug-case-171019576.html

good on scott for getting off, but man what a weird case

Jazz offseason time!

Definitely gone: Boris Diaw (have him replace Harpring plz)
Probably gone: Ingles (too expensive in the end I think), Alec Burks (arguably not an NBA player anymore)
Maybe gone: Derrick Favors (fit is terrible if Snyder doesn't want him to play PF anymore), Gordon Hayward, George Hill.
We should think about having him go: Rodney Hood (jesus christ, he's going to get $100m in 2018)

Geez that's a lot of possible moving pieces.

There's a decent chance Utah is a lottery team next year

If Boston chooses to put the full court press on Gordon, it's going to be tough for him to say no. And if he goes, there's a lot of moves you probably don't make (Going after Lowry, keeping Hill). Youth movement with Exum and Hood developing. Gobert stays and deals with losing on a max contract.

Crazy thought - how would this Raptor team look with Carmelo? The whole offence is already iso dominated anyway, and they could really use another top 30 3 point shooter. The team would have way more to offer NY than the Clippers would.

I feel like Utah has a good chance. Gobert is the second best player after Gordon on both teams (and could potentially become the best Center in the league). Plus Utah has the money on their side.

Honestly the only real draw to the east is maybe in 2 seasons Lebron break down and the Celtics would be positioned to come out the East and likely face the God damn warriors lol.

By Zeus Ex Machina Go To PostI feel like Utah has a good chance. Gobert is the second best player after Gordon on both teams (and could potentially become the best Center in the league). Plus Utah has the money on their side.

Honestly the only real draw to the east is maybe in 2 seasons Lebron break down and the Celtics would be positioned to come out the East and likely face the God damn warriors lol.

Thomas is better than Hayward and Gobert.

By Dark PhaZe Go To PostThomas is better than Hayward and Gobert.

Gotta play Defense to say that

Stevens does a great job hiding him on defense. I shit on Ainge being cheap but I know he's so hesitant to trade those roleplayers cause they can pull that magic act together. Move Crowder, Avery, or Smart and that whole show might fall apart

Even taking bad D into account he's the better player than both of those guys. It's not that hard to cover for Thomas--the problem for Boston is they don't have a guy who can create consistently outside of him.

By livefromkyoto Go To PostCrazy thought - how would this Raptor team look with Carmelo? The whole offence is already iso dominated anyway, and they could really use another top 30 3 point shooter. The team would have way more to offer NY than the Clippers would.

Everyone has more to offer than the Clippers and I think both NYand the Clippers know it. I don't want to go back into that though.....

Depends on if Melo is playing PF. I actually think he would be a much better player there whereever he goes but the KP forces him to play SF. If Caroll wakes up and plays like he use to at SF (high level glue guy who defends) I think they are a at least as good as this year. Hell if they keep Tucker at SF and Melo at PF I think they are at least as good as they were this year.

Lowry/Korver/DeRozan/Melo/Ibaka wouldn't be a bad evolution. Chances of all those guys making it through regular season and playoffs without injury is really bad though.

By livefromkyoto Go To PostCrazy thought - how would this Raptor team look with Carmelo? The whole offence is already iso dominated anyway, and they could really use another top 30 3 point shooter. The team would have way more to offer NY than the Clippers would.

We're probably headed away from that direction anyway. Masai looked pretty annoyed at the end of season media today and said our style of play is not working. Also said a culture change is necessary and whether that means Casey is gone, who knows. Probably still too early to say, but the main thing was iso, one on one just doesn't work well and can't keep doing the same thing.

Hayward and Gobert can be added to basically any team in the league and make them better, Thomas can't. If you need a #1 Thomas is better. If you need a #2 or #3, its not a question.

We can't let Favors go, he's still my favorite. He'll get healthy again, dammit!

By Dark PhaZe Go To PostEven taking bad D into account he's the better player than both of those guys. It's not that hard to cover for Thomas–the problem for Boston is they don't have a guy who can create consistently outside of him.

For me it's two different criteria.

Isiah requires certain guys play on the court with him to hide his bad defense and defensively Boston knows this and they scheme for that. However, it makes him a liability that can be exploited. Also I love his offense but we saw what happens when the refs swallow their whistles and let bigger defenders help/double him. He gets surrounded on the perimeter and has issues getting the ball out because of the length of defenders.

He's flawed but Boston is just the type of team he needs to hide his flaws. They got Horford as a center that doesn't have to operate in the paint so he can drive easier..... Long story short I understand why Ainge is hesitant to move any part of the team. It's balanced well and IT2 game excels because of it.

Team wise though your correct Boston needs another guy (PF) who can get his (and preferably defend) . I am pretty sure they will get it and be a better team than Utah but if you said to a team choose between IT2 and Gobert they are taking Gobert 9 times out of 10.

By Zeus Ex MachinaDepends on if Melo is playing PF. I actually think he would be a much better player there whereever he goes but the KP forces him to play SF. If Caroll wakes up and plays like he use to at SF (high level glue guy who defends) I think they are a at least as good as this year. Hell if they keep Tucker at SF and Melo at PF I think they are at least as good as they were this year.

I've heard that Melo doesn't like to play PF, but in Toronto he wouldn't have to play D there as long as Tucker gets re-signed.

I have no faith in Carroll regaining his form here. Maybe on a better passing team like he had in ATL, but even then he's not converting good looks enough. I really think his salary is the only reason he started over Tucker rather than being 9th man.

I'd figure a trade would center on JV, who's a solid post scorer and could play the Shaq role in the triangle. Toronto also has a bunch of cheap young pass-first point guards New York would like a lot.

Ibaka
Tucker
Carmelo
DeRozan
Lowry

That makes Ibaka your 4th option, Carmelo gets to play his preferred position, and Tucker never needs to touch the ball outside of open corner threes. NY gets younger with players on good deals who are a better fit.

By livefromkyoto Go To PostI've heard that Melo doesn't like to play PF, but in Toronto he wouldn't have to play D there as long as Tucker gets re-signed.

I have no faith in Carroll regaining his form here. Maybe on a better passing team like he had in ATL, but even then he's not converting good looks enough. I really think his salary is the only reason he started over Tucker rather than being 9th man.

I'd figure a trade would center on JV, who's a solid post scorer and could play the Shaq role in the triangle. Toronto also has a bunch of cheap young pass-first point guards New York would like a lot.

Ibaka
Tucker
Carmelo
DeRozan
Lowry

That makes Ibaka your 4th option, Carmelo gets to play his preferred position, and Tucker never needs to touch the ball outside of open corner threes. NY gets younger with players on good deals who are a better fit.

I'd be ok with that trade and I am pretty sure Phil would be to. Melo as well if he waives that NTC. JV isn't the best fit but they could get something for him from somebody else. Same for the PG's if they don't fit the triangle. Everyone thinks I have these crazy expectations for Phil but that's about it, Pick (s) or movable pieces that can be converted into pick (s).

Also I know Melo doesn't like playing PF defensively but offensively that should be the look. I even think he would be able to drive more if he played PF at the top of the key. Like one of these days I need to go into how KP being drafted basically fucked Melo's life in NY up (besides cheating) but I want to see how it ends first.

By diehard Go To PostHayward and Gobert can be added to basically any team in the league and make them better, Thomas can't. If you need a #1 Thomas is better. If you need a #2 or #3, its not a question.

We can't let Favors go, he's still my favorite. He'll get healthy again, dammit!

You might even take IT as a super sub over Gobert as a starter though. His presence can erase 5-10 mpg on average for your guys through the regular season.

Even with the Wiz--I would take Thomas as a super sub over Gobert as a starter. The Wiz have played probably 75% of their post season minutes against a shooting center. Having a guy who can easily carry an entire bench and swap guard spots with a starter/fit in small lineups has a ton of value.

By OmzzWe're probably headed away from that direction anyway. Masai looked pretty annoyed at the end of season media today and said our style of play is not working. Also said a culture change is necessary and whether that means Casey is gone, who knows. Probably still too early to say, but the main thing was iso, one on one just doesn't work well and can't keep doing the same thing.

I'll believe it when I see it. Casey's one year into his extension, and I really believe his iso system is based on the limitations of his players as much as philosophy. Most ball movement was done through DHOs to limit turnovers for a reason. And while the team has a bunch of above league average 3 point shooters, Lowry is the only elite guy in that department. It would take a serious remodelling to do what he's talking about.

That's why I think creating a big 3 with Melo might be a better way to get better immediately, giving you an elite shooter who's going to be harder to shut down in the playoffs .

Problem is you'd have to include Val and Cojo. Nothing else salary wise really works. Lowry in a sign and trade is super unlikely. The Knicks aren't going to take on Carroll's shit stain of a contract either.

By Zeus Ex MachinaI'd be ok with that trade and I am pretty sure Phil would be to. Melo as well if he waives that NTC. JV isn't the best fit but they could get something for him from somebody else. Same for the PG's if they don't fit the triangle. Everyone thinks I have these crazy expectations for Phil but that's about it, Pick (s) or movable pieces that can be converted into pick (s).

Also I know Melo doesn't like playing PF defensively but offensively that should be the look. I even think he would be able to drive more if he played PF at the top of the key. Like one of these days I need to go into how KP being drafted basically fucked Melo's life in NY up (besides cheating) but I want to see how it ends first.

I agree, stretch 4 with a post game seems like his destiny, I don't get the resistance when KD gets to drive from that position just fine. But whatever, he doesn't seem like a guy who it's worth picking fights with.

JV and KP would probably be pretty good together. They're both good rebounders, KP could make up for JV's D and he's better than that Kanter rumour. There are very few guys in the league he can't score on in the post. Corey Joseph was the team's starter when they went 17-7 down the stretch, he'd be pretty solid in the D-Fish role.

By livefromkyoto Go To PostI'll believe it when I see it. Casey's one year into his extension, and I really believe his iso system is based on the limitations of his players as much as philosophy. Most ball movement was done through DHOs to limit turnovers for a reason. And while the team has a bunch of above league average 3 point shooters, Lowry is the only elite guy in that department. It would take a serious remodelling to do what he's talking about.

That's why I think creating a big 3 with Melo might be a better way to get better immediately, giving you an elite shooter who's going to be harder to shut down in the playoffs .

It is a big overhaul for the team he wants on the court but I wouldn't put it past Masai to do it. Of course a lot of that depends on the Lowry situation and in turn forces his hand to rebuild. If he does decide to sign back he'll probably do that kind of move and give it another go. He's told casey that play style wise something needs to change cause it just doesn't hold up in the playoffs. I feel like he's gonna stay on and if they get to a slow start next season he's gonna get the axe

Melo would play PF or gtfo

By Dark PhaZeProblem is you'd have to include Val and Cojo. Nothing else salary wise really works. Lowry in a sign and trade is super unlikely. The Knicks aren't going to take on Carroll's shit stain of a contract either.

I don't know how the +/- math works out in the end, but philosophically I have no problem moving CoJo. The team has 4 PGs who can play, and it would be good to open up more minutes for Delon Wright.

The involvement of ownership on player personnel moves varies widely throughout the NBA. Some allow their general managers to make decisions entirely on their own, while others offer their input on a regular basis.

Ownership will also consider the reactions from fans before signing off certain moves.

"One NBA executive told me a few years ago that he’s heard of owners lurking on RealGM and Reddit to take the temperature of their fan bases before finalizing trades," writes Kevin O'Connor.

Certain trade rumors and articles suggesting a course of action for a team are often posted on RealGM and Reddit forums where a discussion then begins on its merits amongst fans.

definitely not the wiz--we've shat on a number of speculated trades ernie has gone through with lol

By livefromkyoto Go To PostI agree, stretch 4 with a post game seems like his destiny, I don't get the resistance when KD gets to drive from that position just fine. But whatever, he doesn't seem like a guy who it's worth picking fights with.

JV and KP would probably be pretty good together. They're both good rebounders, KP could make up for JV's D and he's better than that Kanter rumour. There are very few guys in the league he can't score on in the post. Corey Joseph was the team's starter when they went 17-7 down the stretch, he'd be pretty solid in the D-Fish role.

I think Phil is looking for a trade for a player he can get either a Good pick for or a younger piece. I don't think Phil is looking for a piece to put next to KP..... if one is offered great, but I think they want to tank next year so I don't see roster cohesion being a priority.

Phil would probably keep Cojo to see if he was "a learner" or could flip him too.

Just rolls off the tongue.

Like Los Angeles Clippers NBA Champions

By reilo Go To PostLike Los Angeles Clippers NBA Champions

Western Conference Finalist Los Angeles Clippers

By KingGondo Go To PostWestern Conference Finalist Los Angeles Clippers

Be nice now. Doc said that was their legacy

Mandatory Clippers need to get the fuck out of LA post. And that includes the OC! Sorry Adam. OC is still Lakertown.

I'm not sure about adding Melo to a team with DeRozan when you just lost a series where you allowed like 120 PPG.

By IWMTB19 Go To PostI'm not sure about adding Melo to a team with DeRozan when you just lost a series where you allowed like 120 PPG.

They need a real 3 and D starter more than Melo

By blackace Go To PostThey need a real 3 and D starter more than Melo

They need a real offensive direction more than all of that.

By giririsss Go To PostThey need a real offensive direction more than all of that.

Oddly enough the Raps really need Klay lol

gonna get roasted here and not throwing shade on Uriji, but after reading his press conference he basically said the Raps aren't going to win with their current players and that he questioned the coaches current schemes (less 1 on 1's)...... So why didn't the NBPA didn't petition stern to fine him?

By Zeus Ex Machina Go To Postgonna get roasted here and not throwing shade on Uriji, but after reading his press conference he basically said the Raps aren't going to win with their current players and that he questioned the coaches current schemes (less 1 on 1's)…… So why didn't the NBPA didn't petition stern to fine him?

1) NBAPA doesn't govern coaches
2) Because he didn't call out individual players and make racist fucking comments against them and their friends jesus fucking christ

By Zeus Ex Machina Go To Postgonna get roasted here and not throwing shade on Uriji, but after reading his press conference he basically said the Raps aren't going to win with their current players and that he questioned the coaches current schemes (less 1 on 1's)…… So why didn't the NBPA didn't petition stern to fine him?

becuse Stern can't fire anyone?

By blackace Go To PostOddly enough the Raps really need Klay lol

I think before that, they need to know what the fuck they're doing on offense.

By Zeus Ex Machina Go To Postgonna get roasted here and not throwing shade on Uriji, but after reading his press conference he basically said the Raps aren't going to win with their current players and that he questioned the coaches current schemes (less 1 on 1's)…… So why didn't the NBPA didn't petition stern to fine him?

Haven't listened to it. But ... he didn't lead a season long campaign calling his players shit and lambasting his coach?

There's a difference between campaigning and being honest. Ujiri was honest with fans who quite rightly should be annoyed/frustrated.

By Zeus Ex Machina Go To Postgonna get roasted here and not throwing shade on Uriji, but after reading his press conference he basically said the Raps aren't going to win with their current players and that he questioned the coaches current schemes (less 1 on 1's)…… So why didn't the NBPA didn't petition stern to fine him?

Are you seriously gonna compare that to Phil's rap sheet

By Omzz Go To PostAre you seriously gonna compare that to Phil's rap sheet

No I'm trying to say Phil for all his fuckery wasn't out of the norm in his press conference. GM's talk shit as they try to explain how the season ended.

Also I think he was less critical Hornecek than Uriji was to Casey.

Not defending the rest of the year of tweets and stuff, but they added that on after they realized that Phil wasn't gonna get fined for the press conference

No I'm trying to say Phil for all his fuckery wasn't out of the norm in his press conference. GM's talk shit as they try to explain how the season ended.

Also I think he was less critical Hornecek than Uriji was to Casey.

Not defending the rest of the year of tweets and stuff, but they added that on after they realized that Phil wasn't gonna get fined for the press conference

Kind of hard to shit on your 3rd coach in 4 years..

I think before that, they need to know what the fuck they're doing on offense.

I don't know if that is fair... They just don't have good shooting and it is hard to space the floor or come back in games without it..

Casey has been here since 2011 and has had 4 years of playoffs results now. The first year against the nets was an "amazing just to be in the playoffs" year post rudy gay era so that one doesn't really count. The main frustration comes from when we got swept by wiz, then the ECF year being a step forward, and now getting swept in the 2nd round against the Cavs. Masai has thrown as many pieces possible into this system and it isn't working. Him talking about Casey and the system is just a brutally honest look at the team and what he feels should be addressed in the offseason. He didn't say X player should be gone or that they'll be moving on from the current coaching staff.

He has 3 post season results in front of him to critique on, what the fuck does hornacek have in his first year for the knicks for phil to even talk about him? All he cares about right now is getting melo out. It's the norm to flat out say at the end of season media "you should play elsewhere" rather than privately, wtf? Hell it's not even the first time he's called him out, he's been doing it publicly all season. Masai isn't a pos like Phil is so don't even know how you can begin to compare both

Plus Masai didn't give out any NTCs like candy to put him in that type of bind.

By blackace Go To PostI don't know if that is fair… They just don't have good shooting and it is hard to space the floor or come back in games without it..

I'm not even sure that they're a bad shooting team. The raw 3P% suggests otherwise. Particularly after they added Ibaka / Tucker.
(3PA)
Lowry: .412 (7.8)
Tucker: .400 (2.5)
Ibaka: .398 (4.5)
Patterson: .372 (3.9)
Joseph: .356 (1.7)
Carrol: .341 (4.4)

We think that, because DeRozan doesn't shoot 3's. I guess it's a bit like Milwaukee. They've both, low key, added a lot more shooting than you think.

Toronto hasn't really changed their offense to reflect that though. They've just sat those guys at the 3pt line and said "that's spacing".

That's why i say, they need to figure out what they're going to do with their offense. They've got a lot of pieces. Arguably, some that aren't being used very well at all, and some that aren't perfect fits.

Iso heavy ball tends to not work in the playoffs. DeRozan benefits from being able to create and get to the line...the latter of which doesn't happen (for him) as much in the playoffs and he is much easier to guard then. The age of dribbling into contested fadeaways is over. Iggy had the same issues for us back in the day, in the regular season that worked because teams couldn't scout you as hard and the whistles were more frequent. Iggy often layed massive eggs in the playoffs because the other team would just sick their best defender on him and thats that.

I'm not even sure that they're a bad shooting team. The raw 3P% suggests otherwise. Particularly after they added Ibaka / Tucker.
(3PA)
Lowry: .412 (7.8)
Tucker: .400 (2.5)
Ibaka: .398 (4.5)
Patterson: .372 (3.9)
Joseph: .356 (1.7)
Carrol: .341 (4.4)

We think that, because DeRozan doesn't shoot 3's. I guess it's a bit like Milwaukee. They've both, low key, added a lot more shooting than you think.

Toronto hasn't really changed their offense to reflect that though. They've just sat those guys at the 3pt line and said "that's spacing".

That's why i say, they need to figure out what they're going to do with their offense. They've got a lot of pieces. Arguably, some that aren't being used very well at all, and some that aren't perfect fits.

To be fair, two of those players were added near the deadline.. The Raps ranked 22nd in 3pa.. Teams near them were the Bucks, the Pistons the Bulls and the Pacers...

Now, they ranked about middle of the pack in % at 13th... but only Lowry is going to be able to create looks for himself from range.

By blackace Go To PostTo be fair, two of those players were added near the deadline.. The Raps ranked 22nd in 3pa.. Teams near them were the Bucks, the Pistons the Bulls and the Pacers…

Now, they ranked about middle of the pack in % at 13th… but only Lowry is going to be able to create looks for himself from range.

Yeah, 2 were added late.

But that's what i mean. We've seen that their style doesn't work as knux described. They need to figure out who they want to be as a team. And with 6 guys who can make 3's at a good %, all guys who aren't liabilities on the other end, or dead weight, they shouldn't be that low in 3PA next year.

They can't really afford to be.

I'm not saying they have to be motion like GSW/Spurs, or live by the PnR like Houston. But they need to be taking a lot of elements from one of them.

Yeah, 2 were added late.

But that's what i mean. We've seen that their style doesn't work as knux described. They need to figure out who they want to be as a team. And with 6 guys who can make 3's at a good %, all guys who aren't liabilities on the other end, or dead weight, they shouldn't be that low in 3PA next year.

They can't really afford to be.

I'm not saying they have to be motion like GSW/Spurs, or live by the PnR like Houston. But they need to be taking a lot of elements from one of them.

But that is kind of the strange thing... They were the greatest O ever in the history of basketball for half the season... They had an idea what they were just when they added these new players they didn't adjust to their games..