An elaborate plot to tank? Or just a deplorable situation? It was probably a bit of both. Once the team was about 25-30 games in, and things started to look really grim, the organization knew it was time to put an end to it all. Jack and Fish maintained that the triangle was the only solution, which meant trading away nearly the entire team (Amare to Mavs, Prigs to Rockets, JR and Shump to Cavs). Melo's knee issues got worse, and so it was time for surgery.
JR started to thrive with the Cavs. Amare maintained some pretty solid momentum with the Mavericks. And Shump maintained his inconsistency as a basketball player. Meanwhile, the Knicks became a glorified D-league team.
Which brings us to today. A franchise worst year for the team. And yet a huge chance to reboot next season with a top 3 rookie pick, $25M-$30M in cap space, and a great selection of free agents that would be hugely beneficial to a team severely lacking low-post presence and still, a truly great point guard. Unfortunately, this year's FA is mostly shit for PGs apart from one...
So, who do you draft? And who do you lure during FA?
Karl Towns and Brandon Knight?
Karl Towns and Marc Gasol?
Mudiay/Russell and Marc Gasol?
Maybe consider Vucevic and Tobias Harris as a packaged deal? Though I can't imagine Orlando wanting to let go of them easily.
Oh I think Monroe regardless. I been saying that since that since slaent was a test site. The knicks have 25 - 28 in cap space so Monroe can only get a 14 mil max so that means the knicks could have have 10 to 14 mil to fill up the rest of the roster. Maybe go after a 2 guard like Danny Green, Maybe Afflalo
If the knicks get okafor, that plan is kaputz though. I don't know who they could pick up in that situation besides trying to steal milsap
Remember that preseason Knicks thread where you thought they could get the 5th seed?
Knicks will get Towns or Oka but then they probably do something dumb like get Rondo or try to trade for Jennings. And then retain Bargs.
By Moris Go To PostRemember that preseason Knicks thread where you thought they could get the 5th seed?
Knicks will get Towns or Oka but then they probably do something dumb like get Rondo or try to trade for Jennings. And then retain Bargs.
Why would they get Rondo or Jennings? They could get Reggie or Knight who are younger and never tore an ACL for the same money?
Phil's here to a)revive the knicks and b)prove his triangle haters wrong.
Hes not abandoning it this early and going with non stop high PnR's
and I don't think Fisher should be spending his second season testing out random drawn up plays he thinks of.
The team isn't getting Marc. Unless Phil pulls off a miracle. Besides him - the Knicks might draft Towns, go after Love, resign Bargnani on the cheap, and maybe go after jimmy butler too. They're not spending max money on a pg, it's the least important spot in the triangle.
Edit: ideally they are doing some damn good FA scouting to find two way guys who can fit the system that come under the radar. The Triangle has a log standing habit of doing that. Ariza and Brown weren't shit, then they came to LA and were consistent and productive rotation players that could play good to decent defense. Ideally they've identified some super cheap guys that would be great fits and don't blow 14 million on Tobias Harris
By Zeus Ex Machina Go To PostWhy would they get Rondo or Jennings? They could get Reggie or Knight who are younger and never tore an ACL for the same money?
Brandon and Reggie are both RFA thats why.
By Vahagn Go To PostPhil's here to a)revive the knicks and b)prove his triangle haters wrong.
Hes not abandoning it this early and going with non stop high PnR's
and I don't think Fisher should be spending his second season testing out random drawn up plays he thinks of.
The team isn't getting Marc. Unless Phil pulls off a miracle. Besides him - the Knicks might draft Towns, go after Love, resign Bargnani on the cheap, and maybe go after jimmy butler too. They're not spending max money on a pg, it's the least important spot in the triangle.
Edit: ideally they are doing some damn good FA scouting to find two way guys who can fit the system that come under the radar. The Triangle has a log standing habit of doing that. Ariza and Brown weren't shit, then they came to LA and were consistent and productive rotation players that could play good to decent defense. Ideally they've identified some super cheap guys that would be great fits and don't blow 14 million on Tobias Harris
Point A is yea, obviously thats every GM/Pres. of BBall Ops job.
Point B is all in your head. He won 11 rings running that offense, he has pretty much nothing to prove. But according to people at the Phil Jackson town meeting he's actually willing to do exactly what you're saying he's not. http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/02/phil-jackson-now-says-forget-the-triangle-offense/">Which is to fit an offense around the best talent he can acquire rather than try and maximize his FA signings according to their fit in the triangle.
Him saying that is actually one of the only positives that came out of that town hall meeting as well as him saying he doesn't want to sign older FAs (around Melo's age) but would rather sign guys who age-wise can bridge the gap between Melo and their first round pick.
From the sounds of it if Phil has his way, he'll be running Jose/THJ/Melo/Bargs?/Towns maybe they can get someone like Gerald Green. Love would be stupid to leave Cleveland, the money and title contention for NY where Melo's future is in question and there's no clear upward direction for the franchise, it can't even be sold to him as a clean slate cause of that huge Melo contract. and there's no way Chicago lets Butler leave since he's a RFA and likely MIP of the season.
By Vahagn Go To PostEdit: ideally they are doing some damn good FA scouting to find two way guys who can fit the system that come under the radar. The Triangle has a log standing habit of doing that. Ariza and Brown weren't shit, then they came to LA and were consistent and productive rotation players that could play good to decent defense. Ideally they've identified some super cheap guys that would be great fits and don't blow 14 million on Tobias Harris
That seems to be the plan, the knicks have picked up 2 guys who werent shit prior to playing in the triangle like Galloway and Shved and they both thrived from playing within it.
Add to the fact they are about to put Hodges (a triangle disciple) in as HC for the D league team to run the triangle.
Plus Mills was talking about looking at guys in europe that were under the radar but could fit the knicks system and its clear the knicks are looking into cheap triangle friendly talent as a future strategy.
By Moris Go To PostBrandon and Reggie are both RFA thats why.
Point A is yea, obviously thats every GM/Pres. of BBall Ops job.
Point B is all in your head. He won 11 rings running that offense, he has pretty much nothing to prove. But according to people at the Phil Jackson town meeting he's actually willing to do exactly what you're saying he's not. http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/02/phil-jackson-now-says-forget-the-triangle-offense/" target="_blank">Which is to fit an offense around the best talent he can acquire rather than try and maximize his FA signings according to their fit in the triangle.
Him saying that is actually one of the only positives that came out of that town hall meeting as well as him saying he doesn't want to sign older FAs (around Melo's age) but would rather sign guys who age-wise can bridge the gap between Melo and their first round pick.
From the sounds of it if Phil has his way, he'll be running Jose/THJ/Melo/Bargs?/Towns maybe they can get someone like Gerald Green. Love would be stupid to leave Cleveland, the money and title contention for NY where Melo's future is in question and there's no clear upward direction for the franchise, it can't even be sold to him as a clean slate cause of that huge Melo contract. and there's no way Chicago lets Butler leave since he's a RFA and likely MIP of the season.
Yeah Brandon and Reggie are both RFA's but if phil wanted to steal them he could get them. I don't think that is the plan (maybe if they get okafor). Both the suns and pistons have PG's who are in their prime and better on the roster. Shit both of their prior teams traded them to try to get something for them since they knew they weren't going to be worth what was needed to match.
Also from what I heard Phil said forget the triangle in regards to the media saying that the only reason he came to NY was to prove that it worked. He said fisher would be able to alter the triangle to fit his personnel like Phil use to change it over the year
Also Moris we all know Love is going to be offered a shit load of money to go to LA to play with Cauly-Stein as your future front court and that the Lakers are going to try to make randle into a SF/PF tweener..... It'll be good enough to get the lakers into the playoffs and that is all that is needed to keep Jim Buss in his role of running the team......
Edit: Also come on that article you posted on is based on a Isola quote. I expect that from some people on here but your better than that moris.
By Moris Go To PostBrandon and Reggie are both RFA thats why.
Point A is yea, obviously thats every GM/Pres. of BBall Ops job.
Point B is all in your head. He won 11 rings running that offense, he has pretty much nothing to prove. But according to people at the Phil Jackson town meeting he's actually willing to do exactly what you're saying he's not. http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/02/phil-jackson-now-says-forget-the-triangle-offense/" target="_blank">Which is to fit an offense around the best talent he can acquire rather than try and maximize his FA signings according to their fit in the triangle.
Him saying that is actually one of the only positives that came out of that town hall meeting as well as him saying he doesn't want to sign older FAs (around Melo's age) but would rather sign guys who age-wise can bridge the gap between Melo and their first round pick.
From the sounds of it if Phil has his way, he'll be running Jose/THJ/Melo/Bargs?/Towns maybe they can get someone like Gerald Green. Love would be stupid to leave Cleveland, the money and title contention for NY where Melo's future is in question and there's no clear upward direction for the franchise, it can't even be sold to him as a clean slate cause of that huge Melo contract. and there's no way Chicago lets Butler leave since he's a RFA and likely MIP of the season.
LOLLLLL
I read tons of different websites breaking down what he said. Phil never said "We're dumping the triangle" he said "forget about the triangle" as in - stop fucking asking me questions. He said the same thing about Adam Silver when he brought it up and another time with "too much is made of the triangle, stop talking about the triangle"
At this point Phil's just annoyed as shit that people who don't understand a damn thing are asking him questions about it. All that "triangle or bust is being thrown away" nonsense is the writer of the article. Not Phil.
He's going to build a Triangle based team, and he's going to keep running the triangle. And he's going to keep deflecting questions about it from people that know diddly squat about it.
Here is the elaboration of that quote.
“I would have never thought that something like this could happen,” said Jackson, who blamed the news media for putting undue pressure on the team and for shining too bright of a spotlight on the triangle offense. “The season became convoluted because everybody wanted to discuss the triangle and how the triangle was going to perform.”
i.e. Stop fucking talking about the triangle you know nothings.
He said this earlier in the year.
“I wasn’t so humored by the commissioner actually jumping in on top of that, too,” he said. “He doesn’t need to get in on that. There’s enough focus on [the] triangle. It’s not anything. It’s a system. It’s simple basketball. Just play the game. We’re over the triangle; let’s get to business and play the right way.”
And then they continued running the triangle the rest of the year. The message is the same. Stop asking me questions about the triangle, move on to another subject. Not, WE'RE forgetting the triangle. But, YOU forget the triangle.
http://uproxx.com/dimemag/2015/04/new-york-knicks-phil-jackson-forget-about-the-triangle-media/
The only site that actually took the full quotes in context. Rather than willingly misled its readers.
*drops mic*
By Zeus Ex Machina Go To PostYeah Brandon and Reggie are both RFA's but if phil wanted to steal them he could get them. I don't think that is the plan (maybe if they get okafor). Both the suns and pistons have PG's who are in their prime and better on the roster. Shit both of their prior teams traded them to try to get something for them since they knew they weren't going to be worth what was needed to match.
Also from what I heard Phil said forget the triangle in regards to the media saying that the only reason he came to NY was to prove that it worked. He said fisher would be able to alter the triangle to fit his personnel like Phil use to change it over the year
Also Moris we all know Love is going to be offered a shit load of money to go to LA to play with Cauly-Stein as your future front court and that the Lakers are going to try to make randle into a SF/PF tweener..... It'll be good enough to get the lakers into the playoffs and that is all that is needed to keep Jim Buss in his role of running the team......
Edit: Also come on that article you posted on is based on a Isola quote. I expect that from some people on here but your better than that moris.
Stealing Reggie or Brandon is such a Knicks of old move tho. They'd have to severly outbid Detroit or Phoenix to 'steal' these guys essentially overpaying for fringe talent again.
LA is in too early in the re-build process to appeal to Love imo, more appealing than NY but still.
By Vahagn Go To PostLOLLLLL
I read tons of different websites breaking down what he said. Phil never said "We're dumping the triangle" he said "forget about the triangle" as in - stop fucking asking me questions. He said the same thing about Adam Silver when he brought it up and another time with "too much is made of the triangle, stop talking about the triangle"
At this point Phil's just annoyed as shit that people who don't understand a damn thing are asking him questions about it. All that "triangle or bust is being thrown away" nonsense is the writer of the article. Not Phil.
He's going to build a Triangle based team, and he's going to keep running the triangle. And he's going to keep deflecting questions about it from people that know diddly squat about it.
Here is the elaboration of that quote.
i.e. Stop fucking talking about the triangle you know nothings.
He said this earlier in the year.
And then they continued running the triangle the rest of the year. The message is the same. Stop asking me questions about the triangle, move on to another subject. Not, we're dropping the triangle.
http://uproxx.com/dimemag/2015/04/new-york-knicks-phil-jackson-forget-about-the-triangle-media/" target="_blank">http://uproxx.com/dimemag/2015/04/new-york-knicks-phil-jackson-forget-about-the-triangle-media/
The only site that actually took the full quotes in context. Rather than willingly mislead its readers.
Yea you're right about the context of the quotes. And I know NY wouldn't have to 'ditch' the triangle to play to their player's strengths cause it's highly adaptable. I'll give you that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Fish/Phil never get to demonstrate that the triangle isn't the problem, cause NY media ain't gonna let up and that turn around in NY is gonna take more than a couple offseasons. Hell, we still don't know if Fish is a decent coach yet after a whole season cause that roster is complete trash.
By Moris Go To PostStealing Reggie or Brandon is such a Knicks of old move tho. They'd have to severly outbid Detroit or Phoenix to 'steal' these guys essentially overpaying for fringe talent again.
LA is in too early in the re-build process to appeal to Love imo, more appealing than NY but still.
Yea you're right about the context of the quotes. And I know NY wouldn't have to 'ditch' the triangle to play to their player's strengths cause it's highly adaptable. I'll give you that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Fish/Phil never get to demonstrate that the triangle isn't the problem, cause NY media ain't gonna let up and that turn around in NY is gonna take more than a couple offseasons. Hell, we still don't know if Fish is a decent coach yet after a whole season cause that roster is complete trash.
Not sure if Fish is a good coach either. We'll see. The Knick media is irrelevant, Phil's not dumping his 20 year Triangle simply because they tanked properly and the same people that were bitching at the Knicks for 10 years for not tanking properly are now bitching at Phil for the Triangle. And he's not going to fire Derek as long as he sees him run the Triangle.
All that being said, I don't think they waste their max on a PG. The LAST place you'd spend it if you were building a Triangle based team. I don't think Love stays in Cleveland, not playing 4th quarters, being treated like the outcast, and living in that city over NY. He looks legitimately miserable. I'm not even sure Cleveland offers him the full max. I mean, would you? After this season?
Someone who's enamored by the Spurs offense and then bashes the Triangle is an idiot. It's the same principles and a lot of the same sequences. They're infinitely more alike than Pop's system and D'Antoni's. So a media member trashing one and praising the other is just lulz and you have to think Phil knows this.
#Positivity
Reports say Greg Monroe to NY is all but certain, so let's try and be positive cause NY fans done been through enough.
Having a legit starting Center in your back pocket makes draft night considerablly less nerve wracking.
Jose/THJ/Melo/Amundson/Monroe is good enough for a playoff push and to make sure the pick you give up aint shit.
Another positive of the Monroe leak is that if you somehow don't get a top 2 pick and miss out on Oka/Towns it won't totally kill the structure of the team and you can add Russell or Mudiay.
Best case scenario becomes adding Towns to Melo/Monroe which could really propel NY since Monroe is only 24.
#Positivity
By Moris Go To Post#Positivity
Reports say Greg Monroe to NY is all but certain, so let's try and be positive cause NY fans done been through enough.
Having a legit starting Center in your back pocket makes draft night considerablly less nerve wracking.
Jose/THJ/Melo/Amundson/Monroe is good enough for a playoff push and to make sure the pick you give up aint shit.
Another positive of the Monroe leak is that if you somehow don't get a top 2 pick and miss out on Oka/Towns it won't totally kill the structure of the team and you can add Russell or Mudiay.
Best case scenario becomes adding Towns to Melo/Monroe which could really propel NY since Monroe is only 24.
#Positivity
Hmm
If they get Towns and he's really the defender he's cracked up to be, Monroe would work.
I really think Monroe's a bad option unless you get a defensive/shooting PF like Ibaka and there aren't too many of those going around. Hmm whatever, let's see how it plays out.
By Omega Go To PostThere's no positivity with the Knicks, only misery.
By Vahagn Go To PostHmm
If they get Towns and he's really the defender he's cracked up to be, Monroe would work.
I really think Monroe's a bad option unless you get a defensive/shooting PF like Ibaka and there aren't too many of those going around. Hmm whatever, let's see how it plays out.
Exactly. We say we sign Monroe for like 12-14 mil but then so our defense and spacing aren't shit we'd have to sign a defensive/shooting PF who'd also command a lot of money. Now we're capped out with no bench and shitty guards. I'd rather we sign a defensive center (or draft Towns), play Melo at the 4, and then spend the rest on perimeter defenders/shooters.
How much is a guy like Tobias Harris going to be worth next season? Orlando says they're going to match every offer no matter what. He's working on his defense, but he's a solid defensive rebounder, he can pass, and he's capable of making steals. Though, I worry he's way too much Melo and is probably better off coming off the bench for him, instead of playing alongside him.
Monroe would be a good pick up though. Add Towns. And really try to nab one of the 2 decent point guards this summer and we should be alright. Not 1st seed worthy, but definitely not clawing for 8th seed.
I hope the knicks to try to get Danny Green. He is a decent D&3 player and the spurs motion offense in principal isn't that different from the triangle so he should be productive
The only issue I have with Harris is he is a mini Melo and it could end up like Melo/Amare never quite being able to work together since they do so many of the same things.
By blackace Go To Post reeeeeeaaaaallly they should make a run at LMA...
When Jesus is ressurected, this will happen.
Otherwise, it's simply pointless.
But the truth is they actually DO reach out to every major FA regardless on what they believe their intentions are. That's just due diligence. Still, the likelihood of LMA accepting talks with NY isn't just slim to none...it's zero to none.
LMA is getting up there in age. Knicks are nowhere near championship caliber
We should just focus on building up a young core. LMA / Gasol + Melo makes us a second round team at best.
By AlphaSnacks Go To Post Why the hell are the Knicks trying to win games? Wtf are they doing?
Their the fucking stupid fucking knicks..... Fucking I can't think of the words to describe how fucking stupid this is to do after being at the bottom of the barrel all fucking season.
By Omega Go To PostThere's no positivity with the Knicks, only misery.
Seeing Felton playing for Rondo was some ether shit, though. I'm glad Rondo didn't end up on the Knicks. I hope it stays that way too.
What moves and pick ups are we making this off-season?
By AlphaSnacks Go To PostYo, Knick-Slaent. Talk to me. Who are we drafting?mudiay or russel. maybe winslow.
What moves and pick ups are we making this off-season?
fuck the triangle btw.
By unknown Go To Postmudiay or russel. maybe winslow.But Phil da masta
fuck the triangle btw.
By AlphaSnacks Go To PostI don't think Gasol is coming either. But that's not the point...the question is who will the Knicks try to aim for and lure.They'll aim for everybody.
They will not lure a single one.
http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2015/05/knicks_should_try_to_sign_dwyane_wade_away_from_mi.html
Wade would be the first #2 option for the team because Amare did not pan out like they wanted to? Wtf. Hahahaha. This guy writing this is a clown.
By AlphaSnacks Go To PostYo, Knick-Slaent. Talk to me. Who are we drafting?I'm selling myself on Mudiay.
What moves and pick ups are we making this off-season?
But knowing our luck, we'll draft Frederic Weis 2.0.
Russell or trade down for Justise Winslow. Jettison Hardaway Jr.
By The Frankman Go To Postwhy does this thread exist again besides giving trolls a base of operations?
Russell or trade down for Justise Winslow. Jettison Hardaway Jr.
It's annoying as hell to wade through a whole bunch of bullshit, memes, bruhs, and pls in the off-season post when I'm looking to just talk about one team sometimes. I'm not really interested in scrolling through Diehard's posts and Reirom's plagiarism.
Thus, this thread.