I couldn't find a dedicated thread (searching 'defenders' gave me a bunch of people arguing about Golden State).
It's out. 8 episodes.
It's pretty mediocre. Daredevil and Jessica Jones are cool, Luke Cage is fine, Iron Fist is still pretty bad. It's better than the execrable Iron Fist series, but there are some really dumb things in this series. Namely:
The villains suck. Sigourney Weaver was not right for this role. Bakuto isn't even soap opera tier. The writers completely dropped the thing about them being a ninja cult because...budget or something. They're all ancient immortal monks who speak in contemporary American English except one guy who only speaks disrespectful rough contemporary tough guy Japanese because I dunno.
The Hand can never track down the characters when they hang out at the places they always are, like the dojo or at home. But when they're hiding out somewhere unknown? You'd better believe they've insta-found them. They kill everybody mercilessly, except for the "they're loose ends, they know too much" mom and daughter who they put a single guy in a car watching them for days because who knows. Once said guy is beaten up, the "they just keep coming and coming" Hand give up on them forever.
Nothing about anybody's power levels make sense. The Hand are supposed to be more than the cops can deal with, yet Night Nurse can solo several of them unarmed. Jessica doesn't know martial arts...except every time she fights, when she can suddenly parry the world's deadliest martial artists and land counter-blows at warp speed. And she tosses cars with ease but her punches just kind of knock people over with all the force of...Night Nurse. Elektra can KO Cage but Daredevil can take her one on one and shrug off getting gutted by her. White Hat can also hurt Cage because I dunno.
The authorities let them steal stuff from a police station, punch through the station wall and blow up a skyscraper and cover the whole thing up because...the writers wrote themselves into a bad corner, knew they had to end the series with a big explosion but didn't want everybody to end up in jail forever.
There is a ham-handed lecture from Cage about white privilege because Fist was going to beat up a black criminal working with mass murders for information...you know, the way Cage does in almost every episode.Finn Jones still alternates between crazy/creepy/useless. And somehow never seems to remember that he can power geyser people like he did at the end of his series. It gets to the point where Stick, who has more sense than most of these characters, is forced to tell Matt that outright. Even the writers totally know how bad he sucks. But then they kill off Stick...and the whole Chaste offscreen because I dunno. Except Stone, who was in Daredevil then completely forgotten because deadlines.Stick cuts off his hand and then his arm gets longer because they blew the whole budget on the cast and they had to use 1950s b-movie tier FX by just putting paper mache over his hand.
The Hand leaders never mention The Beast because the writers were seemingly just winging their whole mythology in this. Almost nothing about Madame Gao is consistent across any of the series she appears in.
Colleen is still way too good for Danny and the only thing worth keeping from Iron Fist.
Okay, that's a lot of dumb things.
But uh...some of the characters get cool scenes? They fight the climactic battle to Protect Ya Neck because YOLO? The women are gorgeous? I'm just going to pretend this is Daredevil and His Shitty Friends Gaiden.
It's out. 8 episodes.
It's pretty mediocre. Daredevil and Jessica Jones are cool, Luke Cage is fine, Iron Fist is still pretty bad. It's better than the execrable Iron Fist series, but there are some really dumb things in this series. Namely:
The villains suck. Sigourney Weaver was not right for this role. Bakuto isn't even soap opera tier. The writers completely dropped the thing about them being a ninja cult because...budget or something. They're all ancient immortal monks who speak in contemporary American English except one guy who only speaks disrespectful rough contemporary tough guy Japanese because I dunno.
The Hand can never track down the characters when they hang out at the places they always are, like the dojo or at home. But when they're hiding out somewhere unknown? You'd better believe they've insta-found them. They kill everybody mercilessly, except for the "they're loose ends, they know too much" mom and daughter who they put a single guy in a car watching them for days because who knows. Once said guy is beaten up, the "they just keep coming and coming" Hand give up on them forever.
Nothing about anybody's power levels make sense. The Hand are supposed to be more than the cops can deal with, yet Night Nurse can solo several of them unarmed. Jessica doesn't know martial arts...except every time she fights, when she can suddenly parry the world's deadliest martial artists and land counter-blows at warp speed. And she tosses cars with ease but her punches just kind of knock people over with all the force of...Night Nurse. Elektra can KO Cage but Daredevil can take her one on one and shrug off getting gutted by her. White Hat can also hurt Cage because I dunno.
The authorities let them steal stuff from a police station, punch through the station wall and blow up a skyscraper and cover the whole thing up because...the writers wrote themselves into a bad corner, knew they had to end the series with a big explosion but didn't want everybody to end up in jail forever.
There is a ham-handed lecture from Cage about white privilege because Fist was going to beat up a black criminal working with mass murders for information...you know, the way Cage does in almost every episode.Finn Jones still alternates between crazy/creepy/useless. And somehow never seems to remember that he can power geyser people like he did at the end of his series. It gets to the point where Stick, who has more sense than most of these characters, is forced to tell Matt that outright. Even the writers totally know how bad he sucks. But then they kill off Stick...and the whole Chaste offscreen because I dunno. Except Stone, who was in Daredevil then completely forgotten because deadlines.Stick cuts off his hand and then his arm gets longer because they blew the whole budget on the cast and they had to use 1950s b-movie tier FX by just putting paper mache over his hand.
The Hand leaders never mention The Beast because the writers were seemingly just winging their whole mythology in this. Almost nothing about Madame Gao is consistent across any of the series she appears in.
Colleen is still way too good for Danny and the only thing worth keeping from Iron Fist.
Okay, that's a lot of dumb things.
But uh...some of the characters get cool scenes? They fight the climactic battle to Protect Ya Neck because YOLO? The women are gorgeous? I'm just going to pretend this is Daredevil and His Shitty Friends Gaiden.
The way The Defenders starts off, is that how Iron Fist ended? Got bored by episode 3 so I never finished that show
By RobNBanks Go To PostThe way The Defenders starts off, is that how Iron Fist ended? Got bored by episode 3 so I never finished that show
Sort of? I won't even bother with spoilers because nobody should watch that series:
Colleen was in a teen runaway ninja camp run by Bakuto, which turned out to be a sub-sect of The Hand, because her made-up-as-it-went-along backstory wasn't convoluted enough already. She killed him because she's good now.
Danny was supposed to guard K'un L'un but he ran away because he wanted to find his family or he was rebellious or crazy or whatever the explanation was in a given episode. At the end he finally goes back, but it's disappeared because they never had the budget to show it. Or the dragon he fought. He feels bad that he let this happen and vows to get back at The Hand. All the stuff they say at the beginning of the Defenders about the places they went was never shown, except for the silly time they went to China in the middle of the series.
Wait, the plot points they depict in Defenders about Danny's adventures were never actually shown on screen in Iron Fist S1? rofl
By reilo Go To PostWait, the plot points they depict in Defenders about Danny's adventures were never actually shown on screen in Iron Fist S1? rofl
90% of that series took place on the dojo set or the office building. The only locations other than downtown New York were suburban ninja campus, Chinese ninja factory (where everybody speaks English) and 30 seconds of K'un L'un.
By reilo Go To PostBruh. And they were like "you know, let's make that the focus of Defenders"?? That explains a bit.
Which is weird, because every meaningful element was taken out of Daredevil comics, which is why it played out more like a Daredevil thing to me. But if you didn't know that, them saying "Iron Fist is the key to everything!" and tying everything to K'un L'un for some reason would lead people to think he was a central figure. Except then they knock him out and tie him to a chair for the second half of the series so they could focus on the good characters.
By blackace Go To PostBeen very disappointed with the Netflix Marvel showsCheckout Legion on FX
By s y Go To PostCheckout Legion on FXHeard good things about it... how many seasons is it running?
I quite enjoyed Jessica Jones and DD S1, the others..well, not so much. I dropped Luke mid way through and never bothered with Iron Fist.
From the creator of Fargo FWIW
By blackace Go To PostHeard good things about it… how many seasons is it running?Just 8 episodes! It's A-tier and nothing like these shows
From the creator of Fargo FWIW
By blackace Go To PostHeard good things about it… how many seasons is it running?Legion is good stuff, just 1 season so far.
I loved Daredevil and thought Jessica Jones was quite good, never watched Luke Cage or Iron Fist though.
Is this show worth the time?
Is this show worth the time?
By Lego Go To PostI loved Daredevil and thought Jessica Jones was quite good, never watched Luke Cage or Iron Fist though.Liked DD s1... couldn't get into S2.
Is this show worth the time?
JJ was spotty but a decent watch
Cage was paced really poorly....and was kinda bad near the end
By reilo Go To PostS2 DD is worth it for Bernthal's Punisher.I'll catch his show for that
By Lego Go To PostI loved Daredevil and thought Jessica Jones was quite good, never watched Luke Cage or Iron Fist though.
Is this show worth the time?
Luke Cage is pretty good up until a certain plot twist that writes out a certain good character who's replaced with one that turns out kinda lame. I don't regret sticking through it though.
Iron Fist is one of those things that gets more annoying the more you think about it. Almost every element of it was fumbled in some way or another.
Defenders is...okay, depending on how much time you've got and how high your expectations are. If you just want to see these characters do the stuff they do, say the things they always say, and see how they work together, that will happen. If you want tight plotting, compelling villains and high budget spectacle, that will not.
By reilo Go To PostS2 DD is worth it for Bernthal's Punisher.
I liked the whole thing, but that's mainly because I'm a fan of the character and know the original stories. But I agree, Bernthal stole the show there.
I'm only 2 episodes deep into Defenders, and Iron Fist is still bad, dragging the whole show down. Eyeroll every time Danny appears.
S2 of DD is not as good as S1. Punisher was way too emo for my taste. There's this graveyard scene between the Punisher and DD where they're sitting around talking that put me straight to sleep.
I agree 100% with LFK concerning Cage.
Once the villain appears in JJ, it becomes the best show.
S2 of DD is not as good as S1. Punisher was way too emo for my taste. There's this graveyard scene between the Punisher and DD where they're sitting around talking that put me straight to sleep.
I agree 100% with LFK concerning Cage.
Once the villain appears in JJ, it becomes the best show.
Daredevil talking to Punisher on top of the rooftop was fucking great, you crazy. It added much needed depth to both characters.
LFK gave a great explanation as to why Iron Fist being a white dude is tolerable (in the Iron Fist topic).
Weaver in this tho? lul.
Weaver in this tho? lul.
I don't know how people can hate on DD S2. Punisher vs. an entire cell block was awesome:
And Daredevil vs. an entire building full of psycho bikers is the best action sequence in any Netflix Marvel show outside of the legendary hallway fight in season 1:
And Daredevil vs. an entire building full of psycho bikers is the best action sequence in any Netflix Marvel show outside of the legendary hallway fight in season 1:
By Phoenix RISING Go To PostLFK gave a great explanation as to why Iron Fist being a white dude is tolerable (in the Iron Fist topic).
Weaver in this tho? lul.
It was one of those casting decisions that probably made sense in an office somewhere - "Ripley as the badass leader? It'll be great! She'll be the grand old lady with a tough physical presence. And as a name casting, audiences love her." I'm sure they counted it as a diversity hire since she's female too.
But she just couldn't pull it off at all. They only gave her one action sequence, they needed something to back up the fact that she just doesn't come across as intimidating in the end. Wai Ching Ho as Madame Gao would have been way better suited to the role, she does the grandmotherly-smile-while-saying-evil-shit thing so well. But they kind of compromised her as an underling earlier on - and as a total helpless chump in Iron Fist.
By livefromkyoto Go To PostI don't know how people can hate on DD S2. Punisher vs. an entire cell block was awesome:
And Daredevil vs. an entire building full of psycho bikers is the best action sequence in any Netflix Marvel show outside of the legendary hallway fight in season 1:
Those were great scenes, yes. It's all the other stuff that was problematic, such as missing a Kingpin-level villain. After all, Kingpin is the reason you have that Punisher fight scene in the first place. It was a season full of anti-heroes; lacked balance. I disliked the lack of actual lawyer-ing or the downplay of DD's conflict with vigilante justice and Catholicism.
I have watched all of DD and JJ, never got around to JC and IF, do I need to watch those shows to enjoy Defenders?
By Shanks D Zoro Go To PostI have watched all of DD and JJ, never got around to JC and IF, do I need to watch those shows to enjoy Defenders?if you watch Iron Fist your nerve cells might lose their ability to perceive Pleasure and Joy
By Phoenix RISING Go To PostLFK gave a great explanation as to why Iron Fist being a white dude is tolerable (in the Iron Fist topic).He did... but the actor + writing are still trash lol
Weaver in this tho? lul.
By RobNBanks Go To PostDaredevil has to be the most annoying superhero ever..
I enjoyed almost all of the Marvel shows up until now. They were nothing amazing but I found them enjoyable, even Luke Cage was okay up until Cottonmouth died
This show was so..meh. I'm not sure I can say it was bad because at least I actually finished it unlike Iron Fist, but it was so dumb. Action scenes were lame af and the whole police department saying "you need to let us handle this" when 3 minutes prior Misty is saying "who the hell can knock out jessica jones and luke cage" so what makes you think you have a chance at all? RIP ninjas too, now they're just low level street thugs. The guy behind Nobu is some noob with a billy club. Any other complaints I have LFK addressed in the OP
Between Iron Fist, The Defenders, the upcoming Inhumans show..the mediocre but enjoyable Marvel TV stuff seems to be a thing of the past. Now it's just mediocre and boring.
The only thing this show accomplished was letting me know why there's no such thing as a Daredevil fan.
This show was so..meh. I'm not sure I can say it was bad because at least I actually finished it unlike Iron Fist, but it was so dumb. Action scenes were lame af and the whole police department saying "you need to let us handle this" when 3 minutes prior Misty is saying "who the hell can knock out jessica jones and luke cage" so what makes you think you have a chance at all? RIP ninjas too, now they're just low level street thugs. The guy behind Nobu is some noob with a billy club. Any other complaints I have LFK addressed in the OP
Between Iron Fist, The Defenders, the upcoming Inhumans show..the mediocre but enjoyable Marvel TV stuff seems to be a thing of the past. Now it's just mediocre and boring.
The only thing this show accomplished was letting me know why there's no such thing as a Daredevil fan.
The amount of times a character says "that's insane!" or "that's crazy!" or "that's unbelievable!" to a plot point or discovery in a universe where a blind ninja sees with sound, a woman with unexplained superhuman strength, a man with superhuman strength and bullet proof skin, and a dude that can punch with his chi exist is hilarious.
Does Defenders exist in the same MCU? As in, NY was also nearly destroyed by aliens before the Avengers saved it?
Does Defenders exist in the same MCU? As in, NY was also nearly destroyed by aliens before the Avengers saved it?
Oh my god Luke Cage feigning shock in Episode 6 at Stick wanting to get rid of the body after he decapitated it and calling it a murder like the right thing to do is to call the police to investigate and deal with it is WOAT character development. It's like, negative character development? Is that possible?
By reilo Go To PostOh my god Luke Cage feigning shock in Episode 6 at Stick wanting to get rid of the body after he decapitated it and calling it a murder like the right thing to do is to call the police to investigate and deal with it is WOAT character development. It's like, negative character development? Is that possible?lmao
By RobNBanks Go To PostDaredevil has to be the most annoying superhero ever.
By blackace Go To Post.
I think you mean best superhero.
I have no idea how you can even think he's most annoying on the same show with Captain Bitchmade.
Daredevil is the only legit superhero in this Marvel Netflix universe. Iron Fist, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage are terrible. Two of them as actors and all of them as characters.
Just finished it and, ugh, I hope Sigourney made a nice fat check because goddamn did they write a shit character for her.
Just finished it and, ugh, I hope Sigourney made a nice fat check because goddamn did they write a shit character for her.
Also, did Sigourney ask to be let out of her contract early because she realized how dumb and useless her character was? I can't explain them killing the character off for any other reason. That shit was nonsensical.
By reilo Go To PostAlso, did Sigourney ask to be let out of her contract early because she realized how dumb and useless her character was? I can't explain them killing the character off for any other reason. That shit was nonsensical.
Every Netflix series kills the villain off in episode 6 now. Sigourney just wanted the paycheque & was phoning it in the whole way.
By livefromkyoto Go To PostI think you mean best superhero.Them dudes barely had comics. Just saying DD is scrub that they try to hype by having him defeat Blackheart and Ultron..
I have no idea how you can even think he's most annoying on the same show with Captain Bitchmade.
I used to have those issues. But wasn't the Blackheart thing one of those "extenuating circumstances" type deals? That was his first appearance and he was just born or something. Those issues were post-Miller, but his pre-Miller stories were a lot more superheroic, I have one from the 60s where he faces off with Doctor Doom. I mean whatever, Captain America and Batman get away with it, so why not.
That said, I kind of agree with you. I don't like it when they put him in situations where he has to act all OP. Like when he curb-stomped an army of giant nazi robots in Fear Itself:
Although everything sucked about that crossover so whatever. But I also didn't like when Bendis had him take down 100 yakuza on super-drugs (!) while wearing dress shoes (in the rain no less):
That last page! Yes, it's canon that Daredevil can beat up 100 armed guys in under 3 minutes. He is Dynasty Warriors-tier.
That said, I kind of agree with you. I don't like it when they put him in situations where he has to act all OP. Like when he curb-stomped an army of giant nazi robots in Fear Itself:
Although everything sucked about that crossover so whatever. But I also didn't like when Bendis had him take down 100 yakuza on super-drugs (!) while wearing dress shoes (in the rain no less):
That last page! Yes, it's canon that Daredevil can beat up 100 armed guys in under 3 minutes. He is Dynasty Warriors-tier.
By Rhaegar Jergaryen Go To PostRemember when DD comics were good? :(
I like the current run fine. His current costume with the boxer wraps is pretty badass. The one thing I couldn't deal with was the explanation of how he got his secret identity back. All these years and they resort to that? Should've just had it get shuffled away after reality got put back together following Secret War.
I could say so much, but the OP nails it. 😔
Are they ever going to write Jessica and Luke's powers consistently? They were all over the damn place. Average Joe goon working his graveyard shift can punch Luke without consequence? Luke can eat rifle rounds, but a sword is to much? Jessica can fight off Luke and hit like a damn train, but can't knock actual evil dudes out? Shit doesn't even line up with their shows. 😒
Are they ever going to write Jessica and Luke's powers consistently? They were all over the damn place. Average Joe goon working his graveyard shift can punch Luke without consequence? Luke can eat rifle rounds, but a sword is to much? Jessica can fight off Luke and hit like a damn train, but can't knock actual evil dudes out? Shit doesn't even line up with their shows. 😒