12GB RAM, 8GB available for games vs 5 for X1 and PS4P
Dolby Atmos
Turn 10 was able to port the Forza engine to Scorpio in just 2 days
1080p X1 games will run at native 4k on Scorpio
GPU runs at 1172mhz LOCKED
Vaper chamber cooling (similar to the gtx 1080 etc)
ALL Scorpio games will supersample down from 4k to 1080p if you use the box on a 1080p display
Dolby Atmos
Turn 10 was able to port the Forza engine to Scorpio in just 2 days
1080p X1 games will run at native 4k on Scorpio
GPU runs at 1172mhz LOCKED
Vaper chamber cooling (similar to the gtx 1080 etc)
ALL Scorpio games will supersample down from 4k to 1080p if you use the box on a 1080p display
what's wrong with an oc jag? cpu upgrade doesn't seem that important unless chasing ultra high fps. devs aren't going to stop working on ps4 games, so it'll serve as a bottleneck. there's little to be gained by being too far ahead of it.
Most important thing is that Forza 7 is coming to PC and will look ridiculous on my 4K / 144fps monitor.
Smokey translate this into PC snob plz. 70% good? 80%? 65%?
All I heard was a bunch of jargon with a guy with serious conflicts of interest saying "really good!" after everything.
All I heard was a bunch of jargon with a guy with serious conflicts of interest saying "really good!" after everything.
There's a lot of good in there, but it honestly feels like they should have taken another year off, worked on games and then kickstarted an entirely new generation.
Forza is one thing, however, what else could they possibly have by Q4? We know their studios. We know what they're capable of at this point. Does playing those games in native 4k really sound worth the investment in 2017? Feels more suited for late 2018-19 for me when more gaming centric 4k TVs are likely to be readily available.
Forza is one thing, however, what else could they possibly have by Q4? We know their studios. We know what they're capable of at this point. Does playing those games in native 4k really sound worth the investment in 2017? Feels more suited for late 2018-19 for me when more gaming centric 4k TVs are likely to be readily available.
By GQman2121 Go To PostThere's a lot of good in there, but it honestly feels like they should have taken another year off, worked on games and then kickstarted an entirely new generation.Automatic downsampling will make a big difference in 1080p.
Forza is one thing, however, what else could they possibly have by Q4? We know their studios. We know what they're capable of at this point. Does playing those games in native 4k really sound worth the investment in 2017? Feels more suited for late 2018-19 for me when more gaming centric 4k TVs are likely to be readily available.
Why didnt they change the CPU, I thought the big thing was that this gen we were CPU constrained?
If this is run multi plats in 4k then I'm in I guess.
If this is run multi plats in 4k then I'm in I guess.
By Lupercal Go To PostSounds like a lot of money for a slightly better Pro. If the rumored 499$ is true.
It's a really good price for what they're offering.
It's actually quite a bit better than the Pro tbqh, and they're supporting it in a much better manner.
I say this without a dog in this fight as I'm a devout PC warrior.
By Lupercal Go To PostSounds like a lot of money for a slightly better Pro. If the rumored 499$ is true.It should be. That cooling solution sounds expensive + 12GB DDR5 + custom Jaguar CPU, that all adds up. If it's not 499$, it will be at least 450$.
By Kidjr Go To PostWhy didnt they change the CPU, I thought the big thing was that this gen we were CPU constrained?
If this is run multi plats in 4k then I'm in I guess.
Because:
On the CPU side, there's been much conjecture that Scorpio would feature AMD's new Ryzen technology - something we thought unlikely, owing to manufacturing timelines, not to mention Microsoft telling us last year that the new console would feature eight CPU cores. All signs point to the upclocked Jaguar cores we find in Xbox One, and Scorpio's CPU set-up is indeed an evolution of that tech, but subject to extensive customisation and the offloading of key tasks to dedicated hardware.
"So, eight cores, organised as two clusters with a total of 4MB of L2 cache. These are unique customised CPUs for Scorpio running at 2.3GHz. Alluding back to the goals, we wanted to maintain 100 per cent backwards compatibility with Xbox One and Xbox One S while also pushing the performance envelope," says Nick Baker.
The new x86 cores in Scorpio are 31 per cent faster than Xbox One's, with extensive customisation to reduce latency in order to keep the processor occupied more fully, while CPU/GPU coherency also gets a performance uplift. There's significant hardware offloading too - some of which is inherited from Xbox One, some of which is radically new. The audio processor in Xbox One is fully transplanted across to Scorpio and gains new functionality - spatial surround, effectively adding a 'height' component to the existing 7.1 set-up. Scorpio is set to receive support for Dolby Atmos for gaming, Dolby Atmos for headphones plus a Microsoft proprietary format called HRTF, developed by the Hololens team. Because the APB (audio processor block) hardware is basically identical to that found in Xbox One, it means that all existing iterations of the console will get the spatial surround upgrade.
However, potentially the most exciting aspect surrounding the CPU revamp doesn't actually relate to the processor blocks at all, but rather to the GPU command processor - the piece of hardware that receives instructions from the CPU, piping them through to the graphics core.
"We essentially moved Direct3D 12," says Goossen. "We built that into the command processor of the GPU and what that means is that, for all the high frequency API invocations that the games do, they'll all natively implemented in the logic of the command processor - and what this means is that our communication from the game to the GPU is super-efficient."
Processing draw calls - effectively telling the graphics hardware what to draw - is one of the most important tasks the CPU carries out. It can suck up a lot of processor resources, a pipeline that traditionally takes thousands - perhaps hundreds of thousands - of CPU instructions. With Scorpio's hardware offload, any draw call can be executed with just 11 instructions, and just nine for a state change.
"It's a massive win for us and for the developers who've adopted D3D12 on Xbox, they've told us they've been able to cut their CPU rendering overhead by half, which is pretty amazing because now the driver portion of that is such a tiny fraction," adds Goossen.
To be clear, then: Project Scorpio doesn't feature Ryzen cores, but the Xbox team are not so concerned about this. "On the CPU side of things, we could still meet our design goals with the custom changes we made," Kevin Gammill points out. "At the end of the day we are still a consumer product. We want to hit the price-points where consumers want to purchase this. It's about balancing the two."
The Scorpio Engine processor measures 360mm2 and features seven billion transistors. We got to see the chip plan, with the four shader engines occupying the majority of the die, skewed towards the left of the layout. Each SE actually has 11 compute units, with one disabled per block to increase chip yield on the production line. To the right of the GPU sit the two clusters of custom CPU cores, while the memory interfaces skirt the edges of the chip.
By LFMartins86 Go To PostAutomatic downsampling will make a big difference in 1080p.
Agreed. If they do downsample old games automaticly, it will be more than worth it.
Assuming the actual thing got games you want to play of course.
$499 USD = $669.994 CAD + socialist taxes = me and my 1080p Bravia say nope.
Because you know I'd want that Elite controller too. With a game? I'd be over a grand for a downsampled spec bump.
Because you know I'd want that Elite controller too. With a game? I'd be over a grand for a downsampled spec bump.
By Wahabipapangus Go To PostAgreed. If they do downsample old games automaticly, it will be more than worth it.
Assuming the actual thing got games you want to play of course.
One of the biggest areas Sony has massively fucked up with the Pro.
By Wahabipapangus Go To PostAgreed. If they do downsample old games automaticly, it will be more than worth it.They are claiming that and also 16x AF.
Assuming the actual thing got games you want to play of course.
By Laboured Go To PostThis is much, much better than what Sony did but they will need the games to back it up.That will be the biggest issue. It seems that they are pretty much building this to have the better versions of multi-platform games and hope that gets them through.
By Kidjr Go To PostI'm expecting close to a generation leap in graphics if thats the case then.Don't. All that games still have to run on the OG Xbox One and there's no developer who is going to do an exclusive title for the Scorpio.
I'm more interested in what this will do for their 360 and One catalog titles than any new games.
If the Forza port is the new norm, fucking great. But Ryse 2, Halo and Gears 8, and Forza 7 are not enough for me personally.
If the Forza port is the new norm, fucking great. But Ryse 2, Halo and Gears 8, and Forza 7 are not enough for me personally.
By Kidjr Go To PostI'm expecting close to a generation leap in graphics if thats the case then.
On a 4K HDR TV it might seem a bit like that, ya. But a 5 tflop increase isn't necessarily a gen leap by today's standards.
By ReRixo Go To Postwe probably won't ever see a "gen leap" again
also $499 seems unlikely
I think we will, but maybe only one more before everything becomes services on inter-compatible boxes.
By ReRixo Go To Postwe probably won't ever see a "gen leap" againOn the contrary, given what they showed today, $499 looks really likely. The thing has a state of the art cooling solution, that think ain't cheap.
also $499 seems unlikely
By Kidjr Go To PostI'm expecting close to a generation leap in graphics if thats the case then.Not even close. This is a "bump up", not a leap. It takes an order of magnitude more power for a leap. Not even doubling something's power is near enough for a traditional console leap.
Sony drops the prices of the slim and Pro at the launch of Red Dead, with bundles, and this new $500 MS box becomes beyond a holiday luxury item despite being the best place to play the game.
Going to be an interesting shopping season with so much new hardware this winter.
Going to be an interesting shopping season with so much new hardware this winter.
By Laboured Go To PostOn a 4K HDR TV it might seem a bit like that, ya. But a 5 tflop increase isn't necessarily a gen leap by today's standards.
5 tflop + a CPU 50% efficiency, I'm expecting to see some serious gains.
By GQman2121 Go To PostSony drops the prices of the slim and Pro at the launch of Red Dead, with bundles, and this new $500 MS box becomes beyond a holiday luxury item despite being the best place to play the game.Slim will be 199€, Pro 250€ or 300€.
Going to be an interesting shopping season with so much new hardware this winter.
By Kidjr Go To Post5 tflop + a CPU 50% efficiency, I'm expecting to see some serious gains.Prepare to be highly disappointed. You will be looking at the difference between high and ultra high or medium and high settings, depending on the game.
By Kidjr Go To Post5 tflop + a CPU 50% efficiency, I'm expecting to see some serious gains.But it's still running the same discs as the standard and S Xbox One. These games aren't going to have maximum optimization on a system that's going to have such a small user base. It's not worth the resources. The saving grace however might be that the porting process, like with Forza, is much simpler. That's something to watch.
By Kidjr Go To Post5 tflop + a CPU 50% efficiency, I'm expecting to see some serious gains.
Native 4K is serious gains over 1080p. It's an enormous increase in pixel output. It also requires an increase in the res of everything else, including alpha effects, shadows, AO etc.
By Kibner Go To PostPrepare to be highly disappointed. You will be looking at the difference between high and ultra high or medium and high settings, depending on the game.System wide downsampling can still make a pretty big IQ difference.
By diehard Go To PostSystem wide downsampling can still make a pretty big IQ difference.Yes, but nothing to make it look like the console leap in power between generations like we are used to.
By LFMartins86 Go To PostOn the contrary, given what they showed today, $499 looks really likely. The thing has a state of the art cooling solution, that think ain't cheap.people seem to be using the ps4 pro as a reference point, which I'd argue is pretty poor value. $499 would surprise me a lot.
By GQman2121 Go To PostSony drops the prices of the slim and Pro at the launch of Red Dead, with bundles, and this new $500 MS box becomes beyond a holiday luxury item despite being the best place to play the game.good thing the xbox one s will still exist. scorpio isn't targeting budget gamers. ms will announce something crazy at e3 like being able to run your steam library, and then that extra $50-100 becomes a pretty attractive value proposition.
Going to be an interesting shopping season with so much new hardware this winter.
By ReRixo Go To Postpeople seem to be using the ps4 pro as a reference point, which I'd argue is pretty poor value. $499 would surprise me a lot.Custom Jaguar which is more expensive that PS4 Pro CPU + 12GB DDR5 (4 more than the Pro) + state of the art cooling solution. It will definitely be between $449 and $499.
When I see generation leap I think people always think of like games mid cycle as opposed to beginning of the cycle.
By ReRixo Go To Postms will announce something crazy at e3 like being able to run your steam library
Yep, using this as a means to murder their nascent cross-platform ecosystem would be pretty crazy.
By ReRixo Go To Postpeople seem to be using the ps4 pro as a reference point, which I'd argue is pretty poor value. $499 would surprise me a lot.$50-100?
good thing the xbox one s will still exist. scorpio isn't targeting budget gamers. ms will announce something crazy at e3 like being able to run your steam library, and then that extra $50-100 becomes a pretty attractive value proposition.
It could be more like $200-300 more than the entry level Slim or Xbox.
Seems like a really well designed and thought out system. Complete opposite of the xbone. Hopefully they diversify their game lineup.
By GQman2121 Go To Post$50-100?oh I meant vs the ps4 pro, sorry if that wasn't clear
It could be more like $200-300 more than the entry level Slim or Xbox.
I think the Pro is going to drop to $300 by the time Scorpio launches.
That back compatibility video is great news though. 360 games are dirt cheap now days. Revisiting a bunch of classics could be a lot of fun.
That back compatibility video is great news though. 360 games are dirt cheap now days. Revisiting a bunch of classics could be a lot of fun.
should be significantly better than the pro actually given the dx12 cpu stuff
e3 will be important to see what they have software wise
e3 will be important to see what they have software wise
By jjasper Go To PostSeems like a really well designed and thought out system. Complete opposite of the xbone. Hopefully they diversify their game lineup.
Think yall really underestimating the sheer fukkery Mattrick brought to the Xbox ecosystem
Phil doing what he can to fix it but games take 3+ years to make. The original vision for x1 we know games were basically secondary
Mattrick might as well of been a double agent
The bottom line is that Scorpio's six teraflops will almost certainly go a lot further than an equivalent PC part. I asked Microsoft about this specifically, and they raise a number of good arguments that make the case strongly. Firstly, that their shader compiler is far more efficient than PC equivalents (think of shaders as native GPU code). Secondly, addressing the hardware directly via their API and with access to console-specific GPU extensions again adds to the advantage of a fixed platform box. And finally, they point to their optimisation software - PIX (Performance Inspector for Xbox) - as a tool that provides the path to console-specific optimisations that PC simply cannot get.
From what I've seen so far, there is some evidence that Scorpio's true 4K performance could pose a challenge to the likes of Nvidia's GTX 1070 and AMD's Fury X-class hardware